User:TheHumanAmbassador/Asriel doesn't have two SOULs, Part 1

This is going to be a place where the rebuttals to the "Asriel has Two Souls, Gaster has Many" will continue to be after Discussions takes over. Well, technically it won't be HERE, this is just an archive that'll be there to test things out, the real place will be on the Undertale Wiki.

Now, I'm not sure whether or not the special green text will still be around in the MediaWiki 1.33 update, or if Undertale Wiki will have to work to do it all over again, and we'll have to go back to using baseline templates for color.

Just in case, I'll be switching over the specialized color to normal wiki colors. They can be switched back if the UCP does let Undertale keep their old formatting style.

Now, everything below the line is exactly how it would have looked had I posted it to the Undertale Wiki now.

Intro=Hello there. This is my rebuttal to the script "Asriel has two SOULs, Gaster has Many!" Though, you could say it's also like an Ace Attorney cross-examination, that is how I structure it. Just without the HOLD IT and OBJECTION all the time. Ferret has also been responding to it in some earlier versions, so if you see me respond to something that isn't in the script, I'm probably responding to one of his objections, and put it in there because it naturally fit in my rebuttal scripts. The objections that don't fit get their own tab.


 * -|Chapter 0=--Chapter 0:Lacking Foundations--

(Now up to date with Draft 4! [Draft 2.1.1?])

The story of Undertale is all about SOULs. What they’re made of. The trials they face. And how, through Determination, they can keep going, even when damaged.

..Okay, is there a prequel to this theory I'm supposed to read first? Please, link me the preresequites. I need the foundational theories that you build this one off of-Else it just looks like those old alchemic theories-Ones that seemed good, but had no basis to them. I'm not convinced that this is the story of Undertale. That's like trying to teach multivariable calculus to someone who doesn't even know regular calculus, or teaching algebra to someone who doesn't even know how exponentiation works.

Allow me to elaborate my take on the "story" of Undertale. This should show you where I'm at when it comes to how much I know about this.

The story of Undertale is about a fallen kingdom of monsters, that declared war on humanity out of rage, and as a way of freeing themselves from the prison they were sent to by humans, out of fear of monsters absorbing human SOULs, and using their power against the humans. However, we, Frisk, show them that killing isn't the answer, and we free everyone in the end, minus the tragic hero Asriel. It's also a story about how even some people who appear to be just villains, were once heroes, until they fell. Tragic incidents create villains, and usually, they can be reformed. I say "usually" because of both Asriel's disclaimer at the end about not everything being solved by being nice, and the fact that we can't reform Chara in Soulless Pacifist. In the end, Frisk attempts to be the ambassador to the humans, and what happens afterwards is left vague. However, the fact that no humans can be seen in the credits is quite disturbing when you think about it... ..Were the humans killed off? Did they run away in fear? ..We don't have enough information to say just how the encounter with the humans went.

It also has many side stories, but if there is indeed a "main idea", it's that. I of course don't search for such a concept, and instead judge the universe of Undertale by its own merits, as a scientist would judge our universe.

Monsters souls contain the powers of compassion and magic. While humans souls are stronger, yet darker. They are able to persist after death, but also able to exist without compassion, and are always at risk of becoming The Real Monsters.

I'm still convinced that monsters can be dark as well because of Kanashi, and that since the book only claims that people SAY monster SOULs are made of compassion, odds are, we can't rely on this.

Kanashi absorbed a human SOUL. And I don't see how that can be for anything but darkness.

The glyphs answered why the humans were afraid. It was because of the monsters' ability to absorb a human SOUL. This was EXPLICITLY STATED, in the glyphs that I stated before made it blatantly clear.

The humans more than likely learned by the existence of Kanashi that such a thing was possible. This kind of fear is what lead to the war. However, the question we have to raise is simple-How could Kanashi have done this.. WITHOUT having some kind of darkness within them? The humans attacked based on the power of such a beast.

The story of the war is likely a complex one.. One that needs the Kickstarter second game to explain. (And as I've shown, that game is not Deltarune.)

Oh, and also, it's monsters' SOUL. Yep, looks like you missed an apostrophe! It's that, or you put an s where it doesn't belong. Same thing for human(s') SOULs.

The friendly monsters need the power equivalent of seven human souls to break the Ancient Barrier that imprisons them in the Underground, and so far they’ve only collected six. So they see killing Frisk, the human visitor the player controls during the game, as a necessity for freeing their people.

Correct. And this is the premise of the game. This is what the story is ACTUALLY about.

But some creatures are not what they seem. And Sans, who somehow has a power level far greater than Asgore, The King of All Monsters, is secretly doing everything he can to save Frisk, for reasons of his own.

He really only has KR and the knowledge of turns. And time magic. ..Okay, that last one does make him immensely powerful.

However, there is another way to break the barrier, even without taking Frisk’s soul. Legend says it would take almost all of the monster SOULs in the Underground to equal the power of a single human SOUL. But if that many monster SOULs could somehow be collected, over time, or through the sudden culling of monsterkind, someone could use them to destroy the Barrier, possibly overnight..

Hence Alphys' experiments. Unleashing the power of the SOUL.

This is why King Asgore told Doctor Alphys to continue Wingding Gaster’s work, and learn how to use Determination extracted from human SOULs to allow monster SOULs to persist after death, and make their collection possible. And this is how Flowey/Asriel was able to destroy the Barrier by sucking in the souls of all the monsters except the ghosts in the Underground, then added their power to the six human SOULs for the equivalent power of Seven.

Or at least, Asriel believed he only had seven at the time.

Sure, maybe he had more. The monster population did grow since those ancient glyphs were made-Maybe the monster population is worth more than one now.

Determination turned Undyne, a normal monster by birth who needed years of training to land a single hit on Asgore, into a powerhouse that could throw Queen Toriel off the throne. If Undyne serves as the control group, Determination should turn monsters into super soldiers, instead of melting them into mush.

But the Fallen Down monsters sent to Alphys’ lab required repeated Determination injections just to open their eyes. And then they melted together when they touched each other, while Undyne touched Monster Kid repeatedly without merging with him. The Fallen monsters became the ghostlike shapeshifting Amalgamates, melting together so completely that it was hard to tell where one monstered ended and another began.

Thing is.. they ARE super-soldiers. They're literally unkillable, making them more resilient than Undyne the Undying. This is evidence they were injected with more DT than Undyne naturally has.

The process was not instantaneous, but neither was Flowey being given life. It seems as if determination injections take time for their effects to take hold. Undyne just wasn't at the melting point yet.

As for why it took repeated injections.. What if it didn't? What if Alphys was just too impatient? The DT injections appeared to do absolutely NOTHING, until eventually, the eyes just.. opened on their own, and the flower disappeared. After all, the effects are already shown to not be instantaneous.. So maybe it just took more time.

Undertale’s hidden files says there’s no disease among monsters, and falling down is natural when old ages strikes, but this doesn’t explain why Shyren’s young cousin and buff Aaron were among the Fallen.

Aaron is a species, not a singular monster. Hence why you can kill him and encounter him again. And where's the evidence that it was a YOUNG cousin of Shyren? You can be a pop-star and not be young.

Alphys could never have extracted souls from the monsters sent to her lab. Because someone else had already stolen their souls. And the reason their bodies persisted afterwards was because their assailant had already injected them with Determination as part of this process.

If they were already injected, why were they sent in Fallen Down? Did it take time for them to wake up or not?

It’s impossible to see what’s inside someone, just by looking at them. And the same goes for a creature looking within themselves. Because Flowey/Asriel believed he was soulless because he could no longer feel compassion, yet he was still able to express every other emotion.

" Love, hope, compassion... This is what people say monster SOULs are made of. But the absolute nature of "SOUL" is unknown. After all, humans have proven their SOULs don't need these things to exist. "-Librarby

Where do you think that myth CAME from? Soulless people can't feel love, so the monsters presume that means SOULs are love, when instead, they simply contain the capacity for love.

But our best friend is in for shock.

Minor nitpick-You're missing an "a" between "for" and "shock". (You MISSED that in your proofreading? I presume that means you didn't read my update for Draft 3.)

Because at the end of Undertale, Asriel Dreemurr has TWO souls.

And the ghost of Gaster.. Has many, many more.

Well, let's find out, shall we? We'll see how well this hypothesis holds up. But since Flowey can't feel compassion, Occam's Razor tells us we should default to him actually being soulless. But we'll see if there's evidence..

So, let the cross-examination.. begin!


 * -|Chapter 1=--Chapter 1:The Fate of Asriel--

(Now updated to fit Draft 4! Which still probably would be 2.1.1)

The most heartbreaking part of Undertale is the fate of Flowey/Asriel Dreemur.

That is true. And everything you said is true, all the way up to (but not including)

But when Asriel carried Chara’s body back to her village, the humans saw him, thought he had killed her, and attacked. It was then that Chara revealed her true plan: To take Asriel over from inside like a puppet and use him as a tool to destroy her own people, who she hated for some reason.

..Not exactly. Chara mentioned hating humanity before, but didn't explain why. But now that the humans were attacking, Asriel could have gotten to see why. Chara was hoping that Asriel would then be strong enough to go through with destroying them.

Chara already KNEW they'd both have split control. We know this because of Tape 5.

"And we'll do it together, right?"-Asriel

That's why they kept on trying to convince Asriel that humans were bad, that it was kill or be killed, and to not doubt them. If Chara thought they could control Asriel, they wouldn't go through the whole dead body thing, they'd hunt out and kill human by human, until they were all done!

Chara thought her human soul could easily overpower Asriel’s weaker boss monster soul.

Explained above.

But Asriel was kind to the core, and refused to let Chara lash out at the villagers, restraining her even as the other humans hit him with blow after blow. And rather than fight back, Asriel returned back through the Barrier, dragging Chara’s body and soul with him, and collapsed and died in the royal flower bed, infusing it with his dust. As well as the seeds of the first golden flowers he brought back from the other world, one of which would eventually become Flowey.

Correct. In fact, you get everything right again.. All the way down to...

It’s a legendary heartbreaking story about love and redemption, and loss.

Yes, it is. Nice that you got the story down. It's probably the second biggest idea of the game's story. Perhaps even the first, depending on our perspectives. Either this or the hypothesis I have earlier is what the story of Undertale is about. Well, probably both, actually. ..This is actually a better candidate, given that during Asriel's story, the song that plays is literally called "Undertale". It can't get any more direct than that!

Once you complete the True Pacifist Ending, you go back and talk to everyone you met along the way. Just like Earthbound, they all have something new to say after the adventure. It makes the world seem even more alive and dynamic, gives you a reveal feeling of making a difference, and provides the chance to learn more about the world.

And if you go all the way back to the beginning, you’ll find Asriel there, still in boss monster kid form. He still believes he’s going to fade, but so far isn’t showing any signs of reverting to the compassion-less flower he used to be.

Of course not. It takes time. The remnants of power from the SOULs slowly fade, and he can keep his form until they run out. This is quite common in fiction, in fact. Marty doesn't start to fade right away after he changes his future, that takes time for the ripple to take effect. Think of the SOULs as what recharges the energy that Asriel needs to maintain his form. Once that energy runs out, he can no longer maintain his form, and he fades.

If you ask Gerson “Is Asgore a Goat?” he’ll tell you about Boss Monsters. When they have a child, the SOUL power of the parents flows into the child, causing them to grow as the parents age. Toriel and Asgore haven’t been aging, and are essentially immortal, because they didn’t have a boss monster child, and Asriel in his flower form didn’t count.

And Flowey transformed back into Asriel, but the transformation was still his flower body. So it STILL wouldn't count.

At present, Asgore and Toriel are the only two boss monster parents we know of. Which means this bit of lore can only apply to one creature in the entire game: Asriel himself.

Or, you know, it's just a bit of lore? To explain how Asgore and Toriel lived for SO long, without being old like Gerson here is, with their parents also being nowhere to be found?

If Asriel can hold onto his current form, his monster soul that dissipated during his death will gradually recharge over time! If he can hold out long enough.. Asriel will have a monster soul again!

Asriel is simply Flowey who morphed into Asriel. His original body is dust now. And FLOWEY has no link to Asgore and Toriel, so he is not taking SOUL power from them.

Anyways, now let's go over Chara's story.

You get everything right about Chara.. until your first mistake here:

Chara’s creepy faces were signs of a greater problem. Something terrible had happened to her back in her home village, so bad that she ran away from the world of humans and climbed a cursed mountain to few returned from, not caring if monsters or oblivion waited for her below.

How do we know this? Sure, we know Chara hated humanity, but why is this a case of trauma? And by the way, it's not "few", it's "nobody".

This trauma left a scar on her soul, leaving her unable to feel true love and compassion for others. She secretly viewed the monsters, even Asriel, as tools rather than people. She wanted revenge on her village so strongly that she was willing to sacrifice anyone to get it, even herself.

We don't know that for sure. We know Chara would never trust a human, but it could very well be true that Chara really WAS friends with Asriel. However, I do indeed believe the entire time, they were ALSO going to use that against the humans. Giving the monsters freedom on the Surface is a nice bonus, though. And yes, destroying the humans was likely higher up than being friends with Asriel, but that's just because destroying humans was so immensely high up there. It was literally their primary directive.

But you quickly get things right again, until your next mistake here:

But when the villagers saw him with Chara’s body, and moved to attack him, Chara revealed her REAL plan. She tried to take over Asriel from within like a puppet to use this body and soul as a tool to kill EVERYONE in the village she hated, throwing away all the love of the Dreemurr Family in one massive horrible trick, revealing that she had never cared about Asriel in the first place.

How is that "throwing away all the love of the Dreemurr Family"? They're not trying to kill Asriel, just get Asriel to kill the humans.

Besides, there's more to it than that. I explain in plenty of detail here (https://undertale.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:151492), but I'll summarize here.

Chara already knew about the split control, because of Tape 5 in the True Lab.

"Six, right? we just have to get six... And we'll do it together, right?"-Asriel, Tape 5, True Lab.

So, Chara needed to get their plan through to Asriel. They needed some way to convince Asriel to go through with it. So they started with just freeing the monsters, and then, they'd stage an attack. They put their own dead body in the flowers, clearly a burial, knowing this would make the humans attack. This was an attempt to get Asriel to see what humans were really like (from Chara's perspective, that is). Hopefully, this would get Asriel to kill them, in self-defense. Of course, Chara would be helping out as well, showing him the way.. Preparing the attack. Perhaps then, Asriel would then agree with the rest of the plan, and be fine with destroying the rest of humanity, seeing them at their worst.

Asriel stood there, taking blow after blow, and eventually retreated, but far too late. And then, they died.

But then, you get things right again.. Up until here:

"And while Asriel’s former monster soul was overflowing with it, the soul he now possessed was damaged, and unable to feel compassion at all."

No, he lacked a SOUL entirely.

The wound was in his soul, not his body.

The reason why he didn't "gain" his compassion back was simple. As he explained, he felt the compassion of everyone else, the SOULs he absorbed. He was able to gain compassion back, but you had to remind him of that. He was so used to not having it, that it takes a revelation to be able to actually use that compassion again.

But, there's more correct things again! Up until..

CHARA! Chara was the name that Frisk called out, and when he did, it struck the core of Asriel’s being like not previous attempt had, reaching a place so deep within him that not even he was aware of it. Frisk found Chara’s undying human soul, still persisting deep inside Asriel after he had absorbed it during their doomed Buttercup Adventure. And bit by bit, wave after wave, Frisk began to heal it. And as he did, Asriel began to gradually feel compassion again.

..When Chasriel died, the SOUL would have shattered. Chara's SOUL would not have found itself inside of Flowey. This was a memory of Asriel finding Chara, because that was Asriel's best friend. It reminded him of what love was. And through them, he could finally feel love again. Flowey had believed in the Genocide Route that a world without love, a world without Chara, isn't worth living. That should speak for itself for how strong the bond between Asriel and Chara was, and could explain why those memories worked. Note that the memory was of Asriel finding Chara ALREADY in the Underground. The actual fall was not there at all. How could we give Asriel that memory? Because Chara is the narrator, and we have been shown to be able to get their memories before, like in Waterfall, where we hear Asriel calling out to Chara. So the memory went from Chara, to us, to Asriel, saving him.

..So yeah. Chara was not in Asriel. They were in US. Because they're the narrator.

..And that's the end of Chapter 1.


 * -|Chapter 2=--Chapter 2:Where Humans Get Confused With Monsters--

(This chapter is now fully updated for Draft 4! [Also known as:Draft 2.1.1])

This begs the question.. If Chara’s human soul is still in Asriel.. What soul does Chara have in the games?

None. They're soulless.

Flowey answers this question in the No Mercy route after Frisk kills Toriel, by referring to her and her “stolen soul”. Frisk’s soul, the one the player is actually able to control.

There was no question. Flowey thought Frisk was Chara reincarnated. Flowey further elaborates on this near the end of the Genocide Route. He clearly confuses Frisk's actions with Chara. He thinks Frisk is Chara. So, seeing Frisk coming down as Chara coming back, of COURSE he'd think Frisk's SOUL is owned by Chara now, instead of, you know, Frisk?

Chara asks for Frisk's SOUL. If they already had it, they wouldn't need to ask for it at the end of the Genocide Route. So not only is this claim unfounded, it's actually factually incorrect.

We see something like that at the end of Deltarune Chapter 1. Where Kris, who has a very Chara-like single stripe on her shirt, tears our Frisk’s soul and throws it in a cage, where the player is still able to move it around during the cutscene. We might control that heart.. But Chara now controls the body, including the heart while it’s inside her.

We were the ones possessing Kris, changing the file name from Kris to our own name. Take a look at what the monsters say about Kris, and how they remember them. Kris acted a lot differently than we did. The ending cutscene is just Kris taking our control away from us, becoming free.

Now for the spelling errors:out (not "our") That's the only one still there, but it's there nonetheless. You may have meant that it's our "Frisk's SOUL", and only called it Frisk's because it's red like Frisk's, but then, why didn't you just call it our red SOUL?

(I might just start color-coding things:Cyan for missing characters, red for characters that don't belong, and orange for replacements.)

Asriel and Chara’s dust scattered over many flowers besides the first one, so a spark of their essence can be found in ALL the golden flowers. This is why you find patches of golden flowers growing in strange, inhospitable, yet convenient places in Undertale. Alphys studied how injecting flowers with determination made their seeds cling more firmly, creating flowers that were determined to live and grow in seemingly impossible places.

Chara had no dust. Only Asriel did. Chara's essence was entirely in their SOUL and in their original body, which is why they were not brought back to life until we fell unto those flowers. Humans don't have dust. That's a monster thing. ..Though considering that Chara had partial control over Asriel, it's likely that some of it very well COULD stay with Asriel.

However, the patches in inhospitable places would still be a result of the DT alone. Essence has nothing to do with it. Otherwise, Asriel would be living as those flowers as well. But only one flower is truly Asriel-Flowey.

Undyne remarks in her phone calls that those flowers just started to grow in that little patch Frisk just happened to fall onto, as if they had a mind of their own. Undyne thinks this idea is ridiculous.. But Frisk had a flashback of Chara’s memories when he fell into that improbable golden flower patch, a vision of when Asriel found her when she fell down. If these semi-sentient flowers had pre-knowledge of exactly where Frisk would fall, and choose to grow in a place that would break that fall.. It certainly raises interesting questions of how closely Chara and Frisk are linked through time.

The DT experiments almost certainly began after even the sixth human fell. Here's how we know this:

From the determination experiments came Flowey. And Flowey had to have come after the sixth human fell, for one, simple reason-Flowey couldn't have met a human before Frisk. And to understand why he couldn't have met a human before Frisk, we have to talk about SLR again.

If Flowey did meet a human before Frisk, one of two things might happen.


 * Either Flowey would lose against that human for SLR, meaning he has no reason to be surprised that he'd lose his DT when Frisk is around either, and the speech about Frisk/Chara being the only non-predictable one.. Would be meaningless.
 * Or Flowey would win. When Flowey say Frisk, he thought he could take their SOUL. He wanted to steal a human SOUL.. So, if he won, he'd succeed in doing this to the previous human, and he'd have THAT soul. He'd have no reason to make Asgore show them, he'd already have at least one of them. He could then beat Asgore himself with this power.

Mettaton's statue was only added to the Royal Memorial last week, so that means his fame is relatively new, and him being built is what made Alphys a Royal Scientist. As a result, the experiment must ALSO be relatively new. So it's no coincidence that the flowers started to grow around our time. We happened to fall just a little bit after they were injected with DT and started to grow more.

But whether they were already linked before or not, when Frisk fell onto that first bed of flowers, he became infected by Chara’s lingering essence, which was doubly unlucky because that was the very place Toriel had buried Chara’s body.

I'd say Frisk got Chara's essence BECAUSE that's where Toriel buried Chara's body. Asriel's essence is in his dust, which is what his body was before. So it would make perfect sense for Chara's essence to be in THEIR body!

Now comes the big question. Who are we, during the game? Is Frisk in control of himself, or is he possessed by Chara?

The former, up until LV19. I haven't gotten there in my Chara thread yet, but this is my current hypothesis-Simply because Sans' kill is the first time a kill doesn't count towards the kill count-Chara's kills don't count, only ours do. The creepy face made at Flowey could also be Chara, and Chara becomes a LOT more.. well.. active once you make it to New Home, which is RIGHT after you kill Mettaton NEO to get LV19.

However, you still have partial control, all the way until LV20, when MERCY is literally removed (though that could just be the effect of LOVE itself-And yes, it IS removed-Check the Genocide Ending yourself-During the Asgore "fight", there's no MERCY button on the HUD), and Chara kills Asgore and Flowey automatically.

Whenever Frisk makes decisions that are truly his own, and resists the easy temptations to gain power and money by killing monsters, he gains more control over his own destiny. If Frisk isn’t fully evil, he can look in the mirror in Asgore’s house, and it will tell him “Despite everything that’s happened, it’s still you.” And if Frisk is completely innocent, and achieves the True Pacifist Ending, Asriel will finally realize Frisk isn’t Chara, but someone entirely different, and apologize for the misunderstanding.

..Yes, Frisk is definitely free in all non-Genocide routes.

Chara, with her broken soul, is a creature without mercy or compassion, and only considers her own wants important, not the wellbeing of other creatures. And the more Frisk acts like her, the easier it is for her influence to affect him. Until the player finds that another force seems to be vying for control of Frisk, and directing him to take actions that the player hasn’t authorized, like deliberately wrecking all of Papyrus’ puzzles and being no fun at all.

Chara actually has NO soul. They lost it at the same time Asriel lost his. Red souls shatter upon death. That's why they're compassionless.

By the way. If Frisk and the player aren't the same, how do you know FRISK isn't the one deliberately wrecking all of Papyrus' puzzles? How Frisk punches the Mad Dummy is determined by their LV. The evidence seems to suggest that higher LVs corrupt Frisk more and more. Sans points this out as well in the Judgement Hall-LOVE is how easy it is to distance yourself and hurt others.

I'd even say all of those actions are Frisk's right up to (but not including) the Sans fight (except maybe the creepy face). So if Frisk kills ever monster they come across, they're not going to like Papyrus' puzzles.

Also, if the player IS Frisk, then it makes even more sense. You picked the Evil Alignment, so you'll be evil in cutscenes, too.

Then even creeper things start happening. Dialog starts to change, and instead of the inspiring messages we get at save points when Frisk is filled with determination, we just get the zombie-like word “Determination”, devoid of life or creativity. Or worse.. The text turns RED, and an entirely different voice speaks to us, one we don’t like at all. On a No Mercy route when you look into the mirror in Asgore’s house, you’re instead treated to the blood red words “It’s Me, Chara”, or whatever name you choose for The Fallen Human at the beginning of the game, since Chara is short for “Character”.

Okay, yeah, that happens at the LV19 mark. Mettaton NEO is the point of no return. But Chara was always the narrator. So it's the same voice.

It does seem like the narrator’s outlook on life becomes darker or lighter depending on how you act. A glass described as “half-full” on an innocent playthrough becomes “half-empty” as the narrator’s pessimism grows. If you get in the habit of killing monsters, the narrator looks at Monster Kid and simply says “In my way” and “Looks like Free EXP”. The more negative Frisk acts, the more the narration changes from a positive 3rd person telling, and more into a negative 1st person narration that makes it sound like Chara is in control, instead of YOU.

As you start to do what Chara wants, they start to bond to you more. By LV19, they've gone full-on emotional. Red text indicates strong emotion, like ASGORE being in red when Toriel mentions his name, for example. They've clearly bonded with you quite well, likely because you're doing exactly what they want.

The more Frisk acts like Chara.. Striking without compassion or mercy, the more Frisk becomes like Chara, in both a metaphorical, and literal sense! This time, Flowey is right when he believes he’s talking to Chara, and she takes Frisk over, body and soul.

Yes, by the time that conversation happens, Chara has already begun to take control. But they're still going to let you control for a little while longer, and they clearly don't have FULL control just yet-Else you wouldn't be able to reset.

The process comes to a head at the end of the legendary Megalovania fight with Sans. Sans is, somehow, able to know exactly what attacks Frisk is going to throw at him, and dodge them every time. Even when Sans falls asleep, he’s still able to sense the very moment Frisk plans to attack, and dive out of the way. Until, suddenly, a second attack, one that the player did not authorize, swings at Sans, taking him completely by surprise and finally landing the fateful hit.

We don’t realize it at the time.. But that decision to attack Sans while he’s sleep.. Is the very last action that 'Frisk'.. Ever takes.

Technically, approaching Asgore is the last action that Frisk takes. And depending on whether or not Frisk is the player, it could also be answering Chara's request to destroy the world.

As for spelling errors.. a sleep. That, or sleep ing.

When Chara’s unauthorized attack hits Sans, making him bleed very un-skeleton-like red blood, Sans isn’t actually finished. He stands up, quips at us about heading to Grillby’s, then limps offscreen, and seems to talk to a Papyrus that we thought was dead, as if he’s suddenly opened a portal to another dimension, leaving us to our fate. It seems the narrator was wrong about Sans being the weakest enemy, and only having 1 hit point after Sans survives six-figure damage.

You can't just SAY it's blood. You have to rule out the other possibilities. Fortunately, we already KNOW monster food does its healing effects instantly, so it can't be ketchup.. Unless it's human ketchup (ew, Sans..)

Also, the narrator wasn't wrong. You can take more damage than your current HP, and wind up with negative HP, though the effect is the same as if you dropped to exactly 0HP.

And then, and only then, do we finally hear the end of battle sound, gain a ton of Execution Points, and reach Level of Violence 20. Strangely, without the familiar message of “You Won!”

You don't get "You Won" in bosses. Sans is a boss.

You only get Execution Points in Undertale when you actually kill something. But Sans doesn’t die at the end of this fight. So where do we get the EXP?

..Yes he does. He most definitely DOES die at the end of the fight. We don't see him on the Overworld anymore. It does take a lot longer than it usually would, which means either Sans has some extra DT on hand, took a human SOUL like Asriel, who also took a lot of time to die..

Or this is a skeleton thing, because Papyrus ALSO takes some time to die, with his head still talking.. So does Mettaton NEO, but he's a robot, so that at least makes sense on its own without the need for further explanation.

Chara gets the EXP… by killing Frisk, and finally taking him over completely. And from then on, the story belongs entirely to her, and Player Choice is entirely gone.

Frisk can still move around, and even reset. Chara did take over even more, but they only FULLY take over once they destroy the world. (Though the game's programmed to do this as soon as you answer Chara's final question)

We have no chance to spare Asgore, Chara destroys him without hesitation.

And, most heartbreakingly, not only does Chara destroy Asriel, she makes an example out of him, slashing his flowery form over, and over again, until every last trace of him is purged from existence. Until there’s nothing left of him at all.

Clearly Chara has grown to hate Asriel most of all. It seems as if this is some kind of vengeance. And I think I know EXACTLY what this is revenge for. It's for ruining the plan, and getting Chara killed.

Remember whose human soul is still inside Asriel? CHARA’S. Flowey wasn’t kidding when he said that Chara had a stolen soul after killing Toriel.. She was in the process of stealing Frisk’s soul, bit by bit, having already lost her own earlier on.

Stolen means it's already stolen. Completely. So that just can't be right. Flowey was just getting Frisk and Chara mixed up, just like he did in Pacifist. It's easy to do that when Chara's essence also exists within Frisk.

When Chara destroys Flowey.. She hacks her own original soul to pieces! Karma is a more militant form of The Golden Rule, which says that if you do bad things to others, bad things WILL happen to you. It’s a pure moment of poetic horror, then, when the last victim of Chara’s mindless murder spree is herself!

Yet, they still exist to destroy the world. The last victims of Chara are:

Alphys, Bratty, Catty, Burgerpants, Gerson, Monster Kid...

Traditionally, when a player enters the name of a character at the start of an Roleplaying Game, it’s understood that this Character will be the one they control during that game. That essentially, this Character is their own avatar in the game, who represents Them.

But Undertale turns this expectation on its head, because no matter what name you imput, you’ll always be controlling Frisk. The name of “The Fallen Human” you entered at the start of Undertale is instead the name given to CHARA, the first human who fell into the Underground.

And we have unwittingly given “Chara” **OUR OWN NAME**!

Actually, we aren't necessarily supposed to use our own name:https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/643945593308618752

"I mean, if you can't think of anything else..."-Toby Fox

Sometimes people don't give characters their own names. They try to separate themselves from the main character, by giving them a different name.

Once Chara stabs Sans, Sans realizes that Frisk gone now, and there’s no longer anyone left to save. So he leaves us, Chara, to our fate. And once Asgore and Flowey fall.. There’s only one more person left for Chara to destroy.

We're not Chara.

Back to errors! "That Frisk is gone now."

So Chara finally reveals herself, breaks the Fourth Wall, and looks out from the screen directly at US, The Player. The one who gave her their own name. And after a charming, progressively more creepy conversation, she smiles, says the two of you are going to be together FOREVER.. Then stabs *YOU* right through the computer screen!

No, that's them destroying the world. We're actually the only survivors (besides Chara)

After this, there’s only one way to play the game again. And that’s to make your arrangement with Chara official.. Submit to her control and beg her to restore this world.. And give her your own soul.

Okay, good. You got rid of the assumption that the SOUL isn't Frisk's. Now, if you intend to prove that it's not Frisk's, you can do this, but remember:You can't presume something in the script until AFTER you prove it.

Our determination is now her determination. Our soul is now her stolen soul. And no matter what we do from then on, no matter how many times we play the game… this transaction can never be undone. Chara is the one saving, and the one who decides how the story ends. And even if you complete a True Pacifist run again, Chara will always get the last laugh at the very end.

Exactly.

If you restart Undertale again after a True Pacifist run, resetting the game but not Flowey’s memory that persists across time, Flowey will ask you to leave Frisk and his friends alone. Flowey will warn you that the power to reset memories is the very power you once fought to prevent him from using. Then, when you persist in restarting the game, Flowey will ask you to reset his memories too, smiles, and ends the conversation dramatically, by calling you, The Player, “Chara”.

I take that as a sign that he was talking to Chara the whole time. What is your reasoning behind this NOT being a speech to Chara, that we hear because of our link to Chara?

And we decide what happens to her, or whether she finds redemption or not.

And this is also why everyone feels such a powerful connection to Asriel Dreemur.

Asriel doesn’t just have any human soul within in him. He has Chara’s soul. OUR soul. And when we decide his fate, we also decide our own.

If we save Asriel, we save ourselves, by saving him.

And if we destroy him, we are the one who is lost.

That fails to account for all of the Netural Endings. And why isn't Chara reformed in a Soulless Pacifist? We saved Asriel again that way, after all..

Flowey presumes we've already reset hundreds of times when we reopen the game, even though we've shown no intention of resetting the game:We could very well be trying to continue. He also calls us Chara. But.. if we showed no intention of resetting, then what is giving Flowey the impression that we are? ..It can only be Chara. So is Chara really saved? I don't think so.


 * -|Chapter 3=

--Chapter 3:None of which were actually invented by Alphys--

(Now fixed to respond to Draft 2.1 3. Now everything's up to date.)

The library in Snowdin says monster SOULs contain love, hope and compassion, and remarks that the true nature of SOUL is unknown, especially since humans have proven their souls can exist without these things.

Since the library can’t even spell its own name right, there’s some debate about how accurate the information inside is. As in the human would, the difference between what monsters think they know, and what they actually know, could be enormous. And while it does seem like most monsters are much nicer than humans, they can still do some questionable things.

Exactly. Which is exactly why we shouldn't go saying monsters can't be filled with darkness.

As likeable as Doctor Alphys is, she lied and manipulated many people during the game.

Indeed..

Alphys told Frisk Mettaton was a bad guy to set herself up as a hero when she saved him time after time, hoping to get Frisk to like her. Although it was all an act that became increasingly noticeable over time. What Alphys actually did is drive Frisk away by lying to him, and anger Mettaton to the point where he started to attack Frisk for real, hoping to use his soul to travel to the surface and reach a larger audience.

Yep. Looks like her plan backfired. Again.

Alphys told the families of the Fallen Down monsters that they were back, and everything would be fine. But then didn’t answer their emotion pleas for information when the Fallen fused into the Amalgamates and became warped almost beyond recognition.

That's the former event that I implied when I said her plan backfired "again". ..Beyond that, I really don't have much to say. I mean, you probably already know that she thought they actually WERE fine when she said they were, and she didn't want to reveal just how terrible the fate of the Fallen really were... (But apparently it can still work out just fine? Snowdrake seems to be happy at the end of TP, despite seeing his mother in this disfigured state.)

And whether Alphys realized this or not, she turned Undyne, her greatest crush, into a walking science experiment by feeding her ping glop that was much more than simple ice cream.

..How do we know it's not ice cream? Undyne was just as passionate as a little kid as she is now-Do you recall the story Undyne tells you when you hang out at her house? She was a hot-headed kid who loved to fight, then tried to fight ASGORE. Natural determination has the same effect as injected determination, as far as I'm aware (though perhaps there is a difference, and that has something to do with why Undyne didn't melt as quickly.. But I'm keeping my "Amalgamates have much more DT than Undyne" hypothesis for now.) And no, her phone calls aren't enough. The reason why she doesn't like ice cream is because it's cold. Undyne's served the pink stuff heated up. Melted ice cream is different than normal ice cream...

So not everything is as it seems in the world of Undertale.

Exactly.

This sprawling complex is built directly on top of a lava field, and requires a wolf to constantly throw ice in the river to keep the structure from overheating and slowly melting. According to Alphys this incredible facility was designed for the simple purpose of generating power.

Yep. Pretty hard to power four cities with just one power-plant. You'd need quite a massive building, and a LOT of hard work for that.

.*insert image of the CORE here*

Oh. The CORE is exactly that.

But for a mundane power plant, the security inside is paranoid. Massive laser arrays are prepared to immobilize anyone walking through the structure. Force fields block access to areas. Steam vents, which Undyne says were designed to help cool down the Core, double as a mode of transportation in an incredibly dangerous system that only a Mad Scientist could love!

But it's not a mundane power plant. It's literally the ONLY ONE in the entire Underground. The monsters don't exactly have a replacement. So if something happens to it, it needs to be rebuilt again, and during that process, NOBODY has ANY power. The security, therefore, is actually a lot more reasonable than it seems at first glance. (No guys, it can't be to protect the capital.. Since there's literally an elevator right to it that skips the CORE.)

It’s impossible to draw a complete map of the Core’s internal areas because the rooms are designed to rearrange themselves as a security measure. And it’s quite likely there are many facilities within that Frisk or even Alphys have never seen.

That is true.

The difference in technology and architecture between rustic Snowdin and it’s “LIBRARBY” and the futuristic Core is staggering. It’s hard to believe the same people built both structures. And the Core’s mundane mission of acting only as a power plant comes into question when we learn of a very special facility with it: A portal to warp time, space, and dimension.

We never learn of such a machine. But considering that Gaster created the CORE, as the Gaster Follower tells us, this is not surprising.

Doctor Alphys reveals in the first Mettaton encounter that she’s been doing a lot of research into alternate dimensions. And since it took her only seconds to turn Frisk’s phone into a double bag of holding by installing a miniature dimensional drop box into it, she’s gotten very good at it.

That doesn't mean the CORE transfers things between dimensions. It means Alphys found a way to do it, probably from Gaster's blueprints.

The Core was commissioned by King Asgore at the request of the previous Royal Scientist, the legendary Wingding Gaster. The same Gaster who was shattered across time and space by falling into his own creation. One doesn’t just fall into another dimension by accident, Gaster must have been doing his own research into dimensional travel at the time, which somehow went wrong.

Yes, that is indeed what happened. But that doesn't mean it happened at the CORE. Alphys is researching the same thing, and this is why she could meet the same fate.

But in spite of Mettaton’s joke that Alphys searches other dimensions as the only way of finding a suitable date, her research, and Gaster’s, had a high-minded goal: To find a way to bypass The Barrier without resorting to the grim business of soul harvesting.

That's a nice hypothesis:That's mine as well. Hopefully we can find evidence supporting this hypothesis.

The idea is simple: If you could warp to another dimension where The Barrier doesn’t exist, you could simply walk through it on the other side, then take a second portal back to the original dimension. Two portals, and the Dread Barrier would exist forever as a colorful glowing reminder of why building intolerant walls is never the answer.

Nice, that was my idea too! Well, not quite, mine was simply warping past the barrier by going back in time to before the war. In fact, I'd even say Gaster might have wanted to find a way to prevent the war, or WIN the war. Remember, Gaster was shattered across TIME and space. He was researching time travel as well. And those Gaster Blasters had to have been made for some purpose.

Still, Alphy’s research on large-scale portals came in handy. During a No Mercy run, Undyne informs Chara-possessed Frisk that Alphys is evacuating the remaining monsters into The Core, and plans to send them somewhere where Chara will never be able to hurt them. Since Chara destroys her entire universe when she wins, the monsters would have had to flee to another dimension in the multiverse to avoid sharing this fate.

What makes you think Alphys even KNEW that Chara was going to destroy the universe? Odds are, she took them to the True Lab, as implied by the Alphys Ending, and they all died when Chara destroyed the universe.

"I... I realized I needed to do something. Even if it meant everybody would... Have to learn the truth about me."-Alphys

How would they discover the truth about you, Alphys? You're just evacuating them somewhere where nobody would find- *cue Amalgamates moving in the background, then zoom out to show the True Lab* oh..

And then there’s the lingering question of what happens to Frisk on a Neutral ending.

Easily solved:Frisk never makes it past the barrier, Flowey tells them to reset for a better ending, and they do!

And yet, whenever Sans tries to call Frisk at the end of the game, Frisk is always gone, and Sans has to leave a message.

Sans' battery nearly ran out. Frisk's might have REALLY ran out. Or, as I hypothesized earlier, they went unconscious bonking their head on the Barrier by trying to cross it when they can't. *Astigmatism places a "Dunce" hat on the unconcsious Frisk*

An elevator to the True Lab is right next door to Asgore’s lair. If Frisk knew about The Core Portal, and how to reach it.. He may have sent himself back in time to try again.

Or they literally just used the RESET option!


 * -|Chapter 4=--Chapter 4:Uncontrolled Variables--

Determination is a recurring theme in Undertale. It’s how someone like Frisk can keep going, no matter how badly the odds are stacked against them. And learning more about Determination is key to better understanding the world of Undertale.

Well yes, determination does play a major role for a lot of things. It's the source of SLR, it's the source of "REFUSE", and just about anything that would otherwise be deus ex machina. Brings people back to life, and based on what we know, is the will to live. So it's basically life itself. But of course, there's far more to it than that.

And a key to learning about Determination is in the history of Undyne, the head of the Royal Guard. Because at some point in her life, this willowy fish person underwent an amazing transformation.

That only happens in Genocide, Ferret.

Early in life, Undyne trained as hard as she could to try and best King Asgore in the sparring ring. But even after years of training, all she managed to do was land a single hit on him! King Fluffybuns outclasses her so badly he was actually apologetic about it, and congratulated Undyne when she did succeed in landing that hit!

You got the story wrong. Here's the real story:https://youtu.be/7vcHXmzX5kg?t=394

She didn't land a single hit at first. But eventually, after training, she knocked him down. Not just hitting him, actually knocking him down. She beat Asgore. Then, she kept training, and eventually became the Captain of the Royal Guard.

Asgore was one of the rare and powerful Boss Monster goats, while Undyne was a normal stick-person of a fish monster. She never should have had a chance against Asgore in the first place, and landing even one hit was a big accomplishment!

It wasn't just one hit!

And yet, many endings where Undyne and Toriel are both alive, Toriel reverses Asgore’s policy of killing humans, only to have Undyne personally kick Toriel, the Queen of All Monsters, off her throne “with her strength” as Sans tells the tale.

Yes. If she can beat Asgore, she can beat Toriel. What? If it took Undyne ages to land a single hit on King Asgore, how could she hope to actually defeat Queen Toriel in battle?

She kept the experience she gained from fighting Asgore! It took years of training. The training still happened, it doesn't suddenly vanish whenever you change opponents. This is not surprising.

The game says that Asgore and Toriel have the very same stats of Attack 80 and Defense 80. And after one-shotting both Flowey and Asgore with a single fireball, one might easily think Toriel was stronger than her ex-husband.

Asgore survived. That's not a one-shot. Asgore probably could have done the same to Toriel.

And yet Undyne was not only able to defeat Toriel in single combat, she also became one of the two Ultimate Bosses in the No Mercy timeline. Undyne the Undying is frighteningly powerful, and second only to Sans himself in terms of raw boss Power Level in the game. How did a normal monster become stronger than a Boss Monster? With Undyne’s Determination.

Exactly! Determination, the power of deus ex machina ..Well, we don't know what. Determination IS the source of the power. And this is common knowledge, as well. There's a reason why Asgore told Chara to stay determined.. Undertale makes a point in telling us that, somehow, Undyne has Determination within her. Even though this powerful substance is only generated by human souls.

That's wrong. Humans just have far more determination. Determination is the will to live, if monsters had no DT, they literally wouldn't be alive.

And the uniquely horrible melting end to her Neutral boss fight makes certain of this, giving her character traits similar to the molten shifting forms of the Determination-enriched Amalgamates.

Right. Her determination really is stronger than any other monsters'... How did Undyne get her Determination? Theorists like Geek Remix have pointed out that the source is likely one of Alphy’s experiments.

Alright, two things. First, there's an error. It's Alphys'. The apostrophe is in the wrong place.

Secondly.. Good job, you actually made it clear what you're founding your claim off of! So now, we can look at that video, so that with its evidence, we're all where we need to be!

..For the longest time, I had thought that determination was this yellow substance.. I was even about to present that as evidence that the PINK goo can't be determination! But after looking through the True Lab.. I found we never actually get to see determination in its material form. Which makes sense, since all of the extracted DT was then used on the Amalgamates. The save point is yellow, yes, but that doesn't make determination itself yellow. It's sometimes amazing just how many assumptions we've all come to accept over the years, and how some of them just don't have any canonical evidence to support them!

But, onto the video. The sea grass is more than likely the seaweed Alphys was talking about when she said it was scientifically important.. It's not really further evidence to support the hypothesis. Sure, it fits in, but it also equally fits in with the original hypothesis!

Hopefully you have a stronger foundation.. Because as Undyne puts it... You're gonna have to try a little harder than THAT.

So, the next two paragraphs are you recapping the video. That makes sense, considering that your viewers might be too lazy to click the link in the description when it turns into a video (YouTube, why did you remove annotations?) I've already gone over that, so let's move onto your original content!

But there’s a disconnect here. In her phone calls Undyne says she hates the taste of ice cream, but loves the pink stuff that Alphys makes. And she likes eating it either chilled, or heated up.

..You're right, Ferret! That's a contradiction! You're onto something!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3R8tkvlAlk

The patch of seagrass Frisk hides in isn’t the same as the one the Old Shoes are found in. But if the seagrass acts anything like Asriel’s golden flowers, the new patches probably do contain some essense of the original human.

That actually doesn't even matter! The amount of grass Alphys has is actually less than the grass that the Old Shoes are found in. Also, "essence", not "essense". And maybe there was more grass there before Alphys took some off. The amount of grass there is suspiciously small.. But Ferret.. Essence is not the same thing as determination..

One thing I really want to know is: Has Alphys been eating this pink Not Ice Cream, herself? She mentioned watching anime in her pajamas while eating frozen yogurt. If Alphys has been eating the pink stuff, she might actually have as much Determination as Undyne! We never actually got to see Alphys in combat, so this is a mystery left for later chapters, like Deltarune.

Are you talking about the mystery Kickstarter game?

Really, though, I doubt it. Undyne's determination kicked in, giving her, well, actual determination. It seems as though physical determination and mental determination are interchangeable. Undyne getting mentally determined is enough to create enough DT to finally make the push into Undyning, and also make her melt, Frisk's DT pushed them from having less DT than Omega Flowey to more DT than Asriel Dreemur (Which, by the way, had MORE total determination) Similarly, Flowey's injected determination turned into mental determination as well, the will to live! And yet Alphys is all but determined based on her personality.

Just think! If the Underground had many, many monsters who were also infused with Determination, Asgore would have an unstoppable army! So why wouldn’t someone inject Determination into as many monsters as possible?!

Because Asgore doesn't actually want to win? Take another look at what Asgore says at the end of his fight. It's for the same reason why Asgore didn't destroy our FIGHT even though he clearly could, since he destroyed our MERCY.

Either monsters are immune to disease, or they simply haven’t experienced it down in the Underground. The only health problem they seem to have, other than being stabbed by visiting humans, is Old Age.

This isn't true for all illness, though, just diseases. Asgore got himself really ill from those buttercup flowers.

Shyren is a young monster, yet her sister also “Fell Down”, and became part of the Amalgamate Lemon Bread. A monster fusion that also included Aaron, who’s literally as healthy as a horse. There is no way that these two monsters were experiencing old age. Yet they still Fell Down all the same, and disease cannot explain this.

Alright, I looked further, and yes, Lemon Bread is Shyren's sister, we learn this after the Barrier breaks and we go around again. But what gave you the impression Shyren was young, and that Lemon Bread wasn't the older sibling? Shyren's actually a singer, so she's definitely not a kid anymore. And Aaron is a species. This Aaron really could be old.

Alphys theorized that injecting Determination into dying monsters would strengthen their souls so they wouldn’t shattered the moment they left the body, allowing them to be collected. But when she injected it into the Fallen, there was no immediate change. Their bodies kept persisting, as if they were -already- determined not to die.

Well, yeah. It takes time for monsters to die from being fallen down. But since she gave them DT, that part began to take effect, slowly, but surely. Starting by preventing them from dying.

None of the bodies turned to dust, and Alphys didn’t succeed in collecting a single monster soul. So Alphys got frustrated, and kept injecting them with higher and higher levels of Determination.

Well of course they're not turning to dust, Alphys, you gave them DT, which is keeping them alive!

The Fallen monsters opened their eyes, and began to wake up again

A reasonable result from DT. Undyne fought back as well..

Why didn’t the Fallen Down monsters turn into Super Soldiers like Undyne when Alphys gave them Determination? Why did it take so many repeated injections for them to gain the strength to simply stand up again?

They DID. But they turned to mush because they had quite high dosage compared to Undyne. They're actually STRONGER than Undyne, because they literally cannot be killed. Because they have more DT. You can't take an uncontrolled experiment and expect to get consistent results, Ferret. As for why it took so many injections, well, it probably wouldn't have. Alphys was in a state of panic, probably giving them dosage after dosage at a pretty fast rate. If she just had patience ...

Now I have another question: Why did the Fallen Down monsters fuse together.. So completely?

The Amalgamate fusion and Flowey X's fusion were two different kinds. Flowey X just took the SOULs. Same thing for Asriel. The body and SOUL were still separate. But the Amalagamtes came from the actual bodies melting, then coming together. So the nature of the fusion is to be expected, it's just like if you melted many things, mixed them together, then put them back into a solid.

Why were the Fallen so much weaker than Undyne?

They were STRONGER than Undyne, not weaker!

If they weren’t dying of old age, and disease was unknown to monsterkind, what put them in this deathlike state? If they really were dead, why did their bodies persist and live on, instead of turning to dust? And why did they form the inseparable Amalgamates when they fused, instead of maintaining some individuality in the fusion because of their souls? Why wasn’t Undyne able to get a single soul from any of them?

They never died. Fallen Down is the state you're in when you're ABOUT to die. And as I explained, the individuality is gone because unlike in the control cases, the bodies themselves literally melted together! This would be an uncontrolled experiment, Ferret. And those aren't very reliable.

Why wasn’t Undyne able to get a single soul from any of them?

Alphys, not Undyne.


 * -|Answers to Objections=Here's where I answer some objections that wouldn't really fit with the flow of my rebuttal project.

--Objections from Chapter 1--

Flowey's ability to save and load cannot simply be because of his determination injection. Because Undyne has second-hand determination, but was unable to save and load herself. So the fact that Flowey has the human-like powers of Saving and Loading, yet can feel every emotion except the strange absence of Compassion, looks like a label on his soul that says “This is Chara’s soul, still persisting after death”.

The ability to SAVE/LOAD only exists in a single person at a time. Flowey simply had the most, therefore the ability went to him. Undyne only has a few traces of natural determination, while Flowey was directly injected with determination.

Flowey very well could have had these abilities without a human SOUL. And that's exactly what I argue happened.

--Objections from Chapter 2--

This means that the world HAS BEEN RESET when the restart the game. Which is why Asriel now looks like Flowey again. He didn’t fade, WE RESET HIM.

In fact, we know the world has not been reset. Flowey mentions Chara (but really it applies to us) should "just let Frisk live their life" (This might not seem to make sense, given that WE'RE Frisk, but remember that Flowey thinks Chara is in control), meaning Frisk is still on the Surface. Plus, Flowey is telling us NOT to reset, and if we do, we have to erase his memories. Since he's telling us NOT to reset, we haven't done it yet. Therefore, Asriel did in fact fade.

How could the flowey patches in inhospitable places be the result of Determination alone? If it was Determination alone, the flowers would be *EVERYWHERE*, every rock in the place would be covered, right up to the ceiling.

There were only three places. And they all happened to be either be places illuminated by the sun (Look at the light), or Waterfall. So they're not THAT inhospitable.

--Objections from Chapter 3--

As you’ve said before, the monster population is relatively small. It shouldn’t take too much of a facility to power all the monster’s needs, especially if it’s mostly light and heat in places like Snowdin.

ONE power plant is also relatively a small amount of them. And if it does down, the entire Undernet goes down. And since this was the entire Underground, then every server would be down as well. I sure hope you guys have it in S-RAM, else the Undernet just lost all of its websites, and needs to be remade from scratch.

Besides, a full-on, nationwide power outage? That's a pretty big deal. And I'm pretty sure Gaster knew he wouldn't live forever. (He probably didn't predict he'd fall into his own creation, but..)

Those two things ALONE should be enough to justify a giant complex.

There’s an excess of available power. The Core was designed by a certified mad scientist for a purpose far greater than simply providing electricity.

Well, it was also designed to continue to last and never break down and bring the Undernet down with it.. AND to not let anyone shut it down forcefully (Monster criminals can exist..)

Because Alphys is good friends with Sans, who originally traveled to the Underground to research the Anomaly which was threatening to destroy the universe. So Sans told Alphys about it. And Alphys warned Muffet that Chara had to be stopped.

[TBA]

--Objections from Chapter 4--

There is nothing about her appearance that suggests herculean strength was ever one of the gifts she had since birth.

Appearances can be deceiving, Ferret. And it could very well be the natural determination within her that keeps her this strong.

Toriel’s stats are A80 D80. Undyne’s stats are A7 D0.

The narrator's stats are unreliable. Toriel's ATK is either 6 or 8, and her defense is 1. Undyne's ATK is 7, with a defense of 0. They're actually about equal.

--Not the End--

That's all for this page, but there is a Part 2 coming up. Just replace the "1" with a "2" in the URL-It's ready.